Automated betting
 

There are scraps of information on this topic throughout the forum going back for some years, not all of it relevant anymore, hopefully nobody minds me starting a new thread.

I have some questions that I hope some of you have answers for...

1 - is it possible to do the following and does anyone in here commit these acts :-)

a) Bet into Tatts using a bot?
If the answer is yes, is it possible to bet into Tatts exotic markets?
And is it possible to bet into Tatts using Tatts prices as the trigger?

I am preferably looking for a way to do this using a product I can drag off the shelves and not write myself from scratch. All pleasant suggestions most welcome!

b) Bet into the TAB using a bot?
If the answer is yes, is it possible to bet into TAB exotic markets?
And is it possible to bet into TAB using TAB prices as the trigger?

c) Bet into any of the sportsbooks using a bot?

d) Bet into BF using prices at Tatts as a trigger? Again, I am interested in a product that does this. Does anyone in here do this sort of thing?

e) Does anyone place automated bets on harness racing or greyhounds?


2 - what products do you use or have used for automated betting?

I am currently using Betengine for simple bets. I find their system very easy to use, easy to understand and a dream for setting up a bet system, if that system is simple. They dont do complex stuff.

I am also trying to use Marketfeeder Pro but find that annoyingly unreliable at the moment and overly complex. Not very user friendly but I know there are others in here who like it.

And I am still trying to get my head around the idea of bets being activated in one system and appearing in the other!

Any other thoughts on the major automated betting software methods?


3 - does anyone successfully scalp or trade using a bot? What markets do you primarily do this in? Do you use software to achieve this or is it your own bot?

Ok, that will do for now... dont want to drive everyone crazy with idiot questions...

have a good day
ET

This topic has been thrashed and the concept/s so misunderstood where non programmer punters trying to communicate their idea to programmers, by the time it's partly understood, technology advances yet again. However, lets say you want to use automated methods, first realize it does not mean you win if you want to use your current method of manual selection. All it means basically the element of human error and brain strain is less to some degree. I am not a programmer, but have learnt just enough to illustrate what I would like to have had a programmer develop my real time working design, to do his/her job and leave the architecture side of things to the punter who and where the core ideas ideas comes from. Preferably the design would be stand-alone that can "communicate" directly from Excell or other spreadsheet makes. None of this web based stuff or members only stuff. 100 percent pure standalone that can get the info in real time and send the bet with precise accuracy.

Anyway, the first thing a AB sytstem requires is a daily race list of every horse, greyhound and trott race in time order. Excell VBA can do this. Then you need a timer that can read the time a race starts and match it with real time. If the time has passed race start time, then discard that race and look at the next race or races on that list.
Once you have that working accurately without a glitch, have it look at the next race thats not yet started. From there you build your first filter, for example is it the type of race you want etc etc etc....
sending the bet to tatts can and has been done, there are some basic ideas here no doubt. But you have to get your selection method working, unit amounts working, staking plan working, results sorted and how long to wait for results...what if theiris a protest and it takes forever..? Do you wait or do you set a limit of time and get on with next race on the list. ....all this tedious brain smashing logic may have to be coded, then tested again and again an so on. Once ya get it right, something changes and ya back to square 1 of whater stage ya at.

Does it have an end ? Meaning does the architecture ever need stop development and tweaking for a punter with basic VBA experience so to at the very least show a working proto type so it can be properly built by a proffesional. ? The answer to that is Yes, but who ?

Yes it is possible but not without a custom written bot. I don't bet into the exotics (not that it would be much different to a normal bet) but I use Tatts price as a trigger for some systems. So yes its very possible.



Yes it can be done too. https://studio.tab.com.au/ You need someone to write you a customer bot to use the API. You will have to get access too.



Yes again possible and some are easier then others. Pinnacle has an API but not many of the others do.


Yes I do this every day but with a custom bot.



Yes and Yes. Again custom bot.


Custom written bots using the various API's available.



I don't use them so won't comment on it but I suspect if you are using something others are not using (custom bot) then you probably have an edge right there.



I did before but I found it can be frustrating when only part of your bet gets matched and its below the minimum to reverse out. Once you do this 10+ times a day the betfair police get onto you and complain they will cancel your account.

I could have probably not cared about those ... or only did the back side first and then not worried about liabilities below $30. Thats probably an option and I should go look at it again.

You are exactly right. I am constantly tinkering with my custom bot and if I had to pay someone to do it I am sure it would have cost 50K+. If you want to go down the custom route then you are much better advised to learn a programming language and get working at it. Yes it will be frustrating but its worth it in the end.

Thanks UB, the main thrust of my post was to see what could be done and how far one could go down this path.

As for the comments about learning programming, it is not as simple as that.

I am a fiction writer with an imagination that never stops. I can sit down, every day, and let my fingers fly over the keyboard as they churn out over 6,000 words per day.
My youngest son is a programmer. He can sit there and churn out thousands of lines of code without every looking at the keyboard!

But he has no imagination- he could never do what I do.
And I could never do what he does as my brain will never understanding "looping".
:-)

ET,

Just get him to code it for you.


BTW good luck with the fiction writing. I am assuming you sell most of it through kindle or are you paperback ?

A- he is too lazy in his spare time :-)
B - Yes, been doing it for years through Amazon, iTunes and every other online store. And paperback through createspace(owned by Amazon).

Yes, all of your requests can be done.
I would think that you might need several programs running at once though.
Tatts and Betfair would be fairly easy to programme, however, apart from Pinnacle, you might find other Sportsbooks don't even have an API, and that is where it becomes expensive.
You have to write the login script, navigate to the correct page and then place the bet according to other odds from another site.
I wonder if Dynamic Odds have an API?
Otherwise you could get some quotes from rent a coder, but make sure they can provide ongoing modifications, because as Puntz said, you can spend money to get it all set up and then suddenly they change the site, the format or something else.
I'm quite sure you could get it done for less than a couple of thousand.
I guess you need to be positive that the investment is worth it, in other words, do it manually for a while to make sure it's not dead money.

ET if your son is savvy with http://www.firebirdsql.org/en/server-packages/ then you can bypass all or most of the Excell prototypes as I did and get straight into it.
It's basically a server/relational database/ script editor package.

All you learn from there is writing the scripts, or bots as they are known using the script editor to do what you do manually.

Heres a hint on how to scan the info for your son to consider...that is...do you scan the info/prices after it's in the database, or before ?
In other words when prices are in, does the system/ bot read the prices raw as they come in, or after they are placed into the database ?

Good luck.

thanks puntz, thanks CP.

CP, you mentioned Dynamic Odds.
You appear to be able to bet through them, but I am not sure if you can set triggers for the bets and I dont think they do all the exotics - in particular I want to be able to fire in my Any2(duet) bets into Tatts.
I guess the problem with taking any action in regards to Tatts is that if the merger goes ahead then that site will disappear.
(and for those questioning my sanity for placing A2 bets - they have the lowest take out/ commission rate of any bets on Tatts)

They do have an option with the pro version of downloading the prices to excel, not sure if you can place the bets via excel, Unitab have phased out there auto bet platform but i believe you can still use XML to place bets, as for NSW/Vic the only option you have until your tun over reaches 25k is the expert bet feature, you can upload a file that could be generated via excedl.

Learning to program and a good option, but yes it is time consuming getting your head around things.

It will be a pain in tatts api goes away. Its one of the better ones to use out there for getting some info.

Forgot to mention,
www.bettordata.com is where majority of real time odds come from under some licence agreement.
It's subscription but you get the raw data to build programs with. You can download samples and the data engine they provide ,which is needed to work with the firebird server.

I'm pretty sure that the tattsbet site will still stay, but then again when they took over the tasracing tote, they closed it down and promised to supply all the important back data that went back years, now every year, they chop off a year. i.e. we only have access to data from 1/01/2011, 2010 has disappeared (archived) away from us.

Automated Punting
 

ET,

As others have noted it is possible to do what you have outlined, and I am doing it myself (except the scraping aspect) every day and have been for nearly 15 years.

I am fortunate to be a punter and a programmer so I understand my own requirements and can translate that to code and functioning programs.

Bettordata used to be my data feed of choice for tote prices as it had all 3 totes and the APN (on course prices). At the end of 2015 TAB stopped access to their prices so it now only has the Tatts and APN, and the latter only when there are 2 or more bookies at the track.

Historically the TasTote api was by a very big margin the best way to bet into any TAB in Australia. Now the TABCORP api is very feature rich and allows a user to get any information that is on the website.

Tatts have a new json based api that is well documented and simple to work with (if you are a programmer). WA has a very basic system of sending bets and there is no api as such.

BF is a whole different ball game and is for expert programmers only. I know Pinnacle has an API as does the new entrant on the scene, Global Tote. The latter is relatively straight forward.

Don't be deluded that you can "learn" programming and create betting bots in a small time frame. The concepts are the same for all betting shops, but the design, naming conventions and so on are ALL different.

If you are young and enthusiastic, plan on punting for a long time by all means learn to program along side your punting. For anyone going down that path there are shortcuts you can take that make the learning and development quicker. Stick with well documented languages like vb.net, c# or python. There a many user groups that have paved the way and been down the path you want to go on so you can follow their lead (and their code examples)

All that said, when a tap breaks I pay a plumber, when the power shorts out I call an electrician. You get what you pay for - if you have a half decent system that makes money the investment (say around $2000 for a custom betting application) will pay for itself in no time.

Hi UB, how long would it take the average person to learn a programming language and which one is the easiest. I know there are a few different languages out there.

Cheers Mike.

You culd learn enough in one of those 21 day books to be able to do what you need. Grab example code from

http://docs.developer.betfair.com/d...pleApplications

I suggest python, Java or VBA.

Thanks mate,

I'll take a look at the link and see if I can find one of those 21 day books.

Cheers,
Mike.