Ok, you drew me out of the woodwork regarding one or two comments , which I'll address...... then I'll go away.
BJ, there's zero contradiction there; you didn't read my post properly, not that that's unexpected considering this is a gambling forum. I didn't say it's impossible to win. I said it's impossible to win, on a permanent basis, by using mechanical systems and related methods. Regarding your second point; I'm here to "preach", because lets face it, gamblers on a betting forum will otherwise never be told the truth.... for obvious reasons; and the vast majority don't want to hear the truth anyway. That's why I initially said I won't continue posting on this subject... I know folks don't want to hear this stuff. So I said it once and intended to simply leave it at that. You asked am I talking about myself......... that's an old debating trick well known, well used and well researched: When someone complains or criticizes something the trick is to turn the debate around and accuse the complainer of exactly the thing he/she is complaining about. You'll have to do better than that BJ ol' boy.
Now to Gazman; here we go again, gamblers are highly predictable. According to Gazman there's a chance I may have "done my nuts on the punt", I should "do my homework and then I might stop losing" then my "world might be a lot brighter"........ presumably I'd then be a real profit taker like the "some of us that are doing A.O.K.". Remember what I said about that debating ploy Gazman? Go back and read it, you've probably forgotten..... then read it 10 times .... ah forget it, you probably still wouldn't understand it. That's the problem with some gamblers, they are so blinkered and lacking in insight that they can't understand even the simple mechanics and mathematics of losing. There's always the next bet, or next system, to give hope.
So that's it! My last word. Really, truly!
You may now take out the knives.... convinced that I'm a hopelessly addicted losing gambler who needs a life and who really comes here so he might get some important information about winning on the punt.. As Jeff Fenech would say "I love youse all". Ya gotta smile. Bye.
By the way, the above was written with a good dose of sarcasm and humour...... but I suspect that will go over the heads of some. That's life.

Hi Jim,

Haven't you noticed everyone here is a 'winner'? Ever read a post here saying "I'm a looser"? Course you haven't.
I've punted on and off for 35yrs. and no punter say's it [I'm a mug-punter idiot].Banging their head away on the wall saying"this doesn't hurt and I keep doing it because there is hope I won't get a headache".
Yeah, there is a bit of that going on here, but many punters, like with their drinking, have punting well under control
and enjoy what they are doing. It's budgeted into our lifestyle along with everything else. And yes, winning is possible but not all the time and probably never long term for most of us anyway.

glad to see the doom & gloom merchants peddling their wares once again.

the thing about being an "ex" (smoker, drinker, gambler, husband!) appears to be tragic amount of baggage that one accumulates & ocassionally needs to unload.

& as i am currently 2 out of the 4 "ex's" mentioned above i do know what i am talking about!

Hi Jim,

well you have certainly stirred the pot with that post

"ALL seemingly profitable systems eventually collapse into loss."

What is the longest period, that you know of, that a systematic approach has been profitable? I'd be interested to learn...

Without a systematical approach to finding selections, and backing them, I dont see how anyone can possibly produce long term profits. This applies equally to using ratings...and applying a systematic approach to best using them..

maybe i'm misinterpreting what you are writing..becasue unless I am, you are saying that no one can make money in the long term...bookies included..dont forget bookies are betting on horses too....

" Can even one person out there tell me why someone who knows of a "genuine, permanent" profit making method of punting would tell ANYONE about it? And then proceed to ask money for it?"


Jim, I just dont buy that.."why would someone sell a winning method?" line. If that was the case Don Scott would never have written his book... and I have given one example where a selection method was given away freely. Not everyone in this world is driven by personal selfish needs...trust me...For some it is ego..for others it's an inability to keep a secret for a long time, and for others it is purely just to help out fellow humans..

I am the first to agree that there are people out there who develop systems for the sole reason of making money by selling those methods...but that is a totally different story in my book. I admit that it certainly gives methodical approaches a bad name.

All the best Jim
Cheers

I think what Jim is saying is that most punters will finish behind in the long run. Betting mathematics would suggest this is true. If we look at betting on the tote...win betting returns 86% of the pool back to the punter..therefore most punters by definition must lose. The bookies operate at over 100% most of the time therefore they have the odds in their favour and this is one of the main reasons they finish in front.

Some punters do win..they are usually the ones that have a unique logical approach that is not in the mainstream. Don Scott published his methods after they became well known to others as he stated. If you purely followed Don Scotts methods today you would end up losing. When Don Scott was using his approach in the 70's and early 80's they were unique and he was getting great overlays. Today most of the ratings based on DS are favourites and not overlays but underlays. You need to take them to a higher level.

And i am sure some punters have either taken them to a higher level or established better techniques to rating horses. Of course we wont know about these people because they are unlikely to publish their methods.

well said joelance. in recent years the wider racing and betting community has taken on the fast food rush-rush mentality of society in general . having been punting for over 30 years i have seen this lead to a sharp growth in an almost keno mentality in the way racing is promoted and hence also a rise in 'get rich sytems' .

It think the point to be made is that a system is just that - systematic . it is rigid and allows for limited flexibility . just the very words " guaranteed' , 'sure thing' , 'instant wealth' should send a shiver up most peoples spines.

from where i sit what lacks most in recent years is a 'get back to basics' approach . this has been lost in the 1 race every 3 and 4 minutes 7 days a week beamed into our tabs and pubs and homes. for this reason , i for one have found it heartening that some of the newer sites like **************************.com are actually seen to be trying to promote re-education by challenging the punter to think for themselves and not listen to the guy on the radio with the 'late mail' heard over last night steak and chips.


John

You didn't say it is impossible to win, just impossible to win on a permanent basis by using mechanical systems and related methods. Well how are these "professional .01%" winning on the punt then?
I call that a contradiction.

"Can even one person out there tell me why someone who knows of a "genuine, permanent" profit making method of punting would tell ANYONE about it? And then proceed to ask money for it?"

Here you are suggesting that these systems exist, but the ones getting sold are clearly **********. Yet another contradiction.

Please do not categorise everybody that has a punt on the horses as desperadoes. I personally take offense to it. Yes there are people that are desperate to find the holy grail and they probably never will. At the same time though, there are people who enjoy having a bet. They have fun it is within their budget, and nobody gets hurt. Then there are people that treat it like a business.

Let me tell you this Guitar Jim. It is possible to win long term on the punt. Just because you don't know how to, doesn't mean it can't be done.
Right now the opportunities are there to do this. It may not last forever, but no money will be lost on it when the opportunities dry up. It cannot lose.
I do not need to go into any detail, I am in it for myself. I could care less what you believe because I believe something different. You haven't provided any proof of anything, just your opinion, which you are welcome to.
I know I haven't provided any proof either. But, the difference is you are trying to change my views, not the other way around.

Now go and preach somewhere else.

hey there all ,,,,,,,JIM,JIM.JIM,JIM,JIM,,,,,,momma allways said funny is as funny does...but great wordsmith work there jim i'm sure you were the champ at debate camp!!!!!!!!!!goining for a fish in the morning ,so i'll put all my loses on then and that will be that easy job out of the way i wont even check my accounts out when i get home becouse i''ll know the outcome thanks to your insights too how my world works....but like unlike you jim some of the best things in my life i did not pay for..................
crash if you read this ''thread ''you will see that some one said that they could not make any money and they use it as a recreational tool maybe in the same way as i go fishing, but some people will allways read with there ears and look with their wallet...mmmmmmfresh dhue fish ,,i'll have a nice chardonay for you jim,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.hey BJ i'd have you on my debate team but i'm not going to debate camp with you...cheers.gaz..
PS jim buy a guitar and learn how to play it and you might relise that nothing comes easy...............

Waxing philosophical there Gazza ?
Horses ain't as hard as playing a guitar [well]. A Banjo is cooler than doing either though.

Money is...well only money. But a Banjo is a "BANJO" !!!

i thought a banjo was paterson and he knew a horse
cheers..gaz.........