I'm not saying that you can't win laying horses, I'm just saying it's twice as tough as backing.

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If you are going to target a price range you have to lay as close to Tab price as you can.
We now backing all horses paying $6 on the Tab results in about 10 to 20% loss (guess), so you would have to lay within that % range to come out in front.

The problem is that more often than not you can't lay at anywhere near $6.00, probably $7.00 to $7.50 or more, which means that all advantage is lost.
Coupled with that are the horses you can get set @ $6.00 means the horse has probably firmed from $6 to $5.50 or $5.00 and you are still over the odds.

Complicated game this.

Take the $6.00 win scenario, the correct(?) price is $7.20 @ 20% takeout.
$6.90 is the breakeven point less commission, so you have to lay at LESS than $6.90 to make any money at all.

Very hard to get set at that price for a $6.00 horse.

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so chrome doesnt it all come down to selection method?

we are all told over & over that one can only win on the punt by "finding value"

so surely this also applies when laying a nag - if you can lay $7.5 abt a horse you rate at $8.5 or more then the jobs 1/2 done no?

so i have to disagree entirely with your comment "I'm not saying that you can't win laying horses, I'm just saying it's twice as tough as backing"

making a $ laying certainly isnt any easier but twice as hard? no

Surely if the takeout of TABS is 14.50% and the takeout of Betfair is 5% (effectively), you are 9.5% better off backing using Betfair and 9.5% worse off laying using Betfair, which is why I say it's twice as hard, but actually it's 19% harder.
To win, your ratings have to outperform the market either way, but have to outperform the market by more than 19% laying.

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Hi Chrome

Just to complicate things more, I've laid horses, not the whole field, at say, 70%, and cleaned up when they all get beaten. And at the other end of the spectrum I've laid horses, again not the whole field at say, 105%, and lost because I've laid the winner for more than the rest.

Also, as you know, I lay every day..........and have made profits from day 1, and I don't mean UK races where I can lay the lot over 100%.

Plus it is possible to lay shorter than TAB odds. An extreme example happened just yesterday. A mate of mine laid a horse @ 4.10, it opened 50/1 on IAS and he was able to back it back @ 85 !!! People take strange prices every day.

Some of todays lays, ie the price I took, and the Unitab price.

MR1 9, me 7.60, UTB 8.80
10, me 5.55, UTB 4.70
11, me 9.80, UTB 12.40

MR2 3, me 3.95, UTB 3.90
6, me 8.80, UTB 11.40
10, me 9.80, UTB 12.20

MR3 12, me 3.30, UTB 3.40..............and I backed it @ 4.50

MR4 3, me 9.80, UTB 9.80
5, me 9.80, UTB 9.90

MR5, 7, me 3.62, UTB 3.70

I honestly didn't think there would be this many, as I don't usually do a post mortem and check the TAB prices.

Yes, there are many opportunites to manipulate the odds in your favour and many prices offered to be taken advantage of, what I'm talking about is the starting point.
There is far more opportunity in Australian markets to get under TAB price.

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Here's a nice example of the bias

R1 Kenilworth Oceans Away

SA TAB $1.20

My price to back
$1.45 matched
$1.48 matched
$1.52 matched
$1.57 matched
$1.61 matched
$1.65 matched
$1.69 matched

Average odds $1.61 on a $1.20 shot

34% better less 5% commission 29% better.
Overall loss at TAB prices 10%
Overall profit at Betfair prices 19%

Minimum traded price $1.38

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So that was you taking all my tiny bets !!!!!

I did lay others and won.