Vortech, try and find a system with no form ..... for instance NO Win%, p/money, last start placed or beaten margin, career starts and so on. I ask you 'coz you have said you now have many systems at your disposal, and it's my contention that if you can find a system or two with NO FORM filters you're on a winner. I have a couple of such systems and they're consistent through any test period, and indeed at any venue in Australia, Country or Metro.

I'm not asking that you give up your system so that all and sundry can see it, but maybe an acknowledgement that exclusively the NO FORM filters produce consistency that your other systems simple cannot compete with. It's what I've found anyway .....

Barny everything with the exception of barrier draw and colours is form related. I challenge you to prove that you have a NO FORM system that is PROFITABLE. Otherwise you are guilty of the very thing that you chastise others for. Beton

OK, Beton. I don't see allocated weight as form, nor the distance of the race about to be compteted in, nor the type of race. I see form, rightly or wrongly as how the horse has performed in the past ?! eg; 1st to 4th last 4 runs, ran 2nd beaten 2 lengths etc. What do you answer when someone says "What's the form for this horse ?"

Saddlecloth number is one of my NON FORM filters. My best system has four filters .....

I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from, the point is to get right away from the "perFORMance" of the horse in the past, indicators that are far too often used, almost exclusively, and result is the more popular ones being massively overbet.

Allocated weight is form. The allocated weight is the penalty or bonus given by the handicapper based on recent past form. Distance the race is a direct reflection of how the trainer views the horses recent form, same for the type of race- the horse must be eligible to run which is recent form.

You are saying that you have systems which do not consider the displayed FORMLINE of recent results. You however still do not consider past results IE API W% etc.

You are saying NO FORM. I am saying impossible and asking you politely to substantiate you claim. Beton

Saddlecloth number is biggest form indicator in the race. The handicapper has said that TAB#1 is the best horse of the field and has penalised it as much as he is allowed to in order to present an even race. similarily the lowest TAB# is the most challenged horse in the race and has given a bonus abeit in most cases insufficient.

All I am saying is that you are making a claim which is impossible to back up.

OK then, I don't agree with your in depth meaning of form. We can disagree on that point and still have an understanding of where I'm coming from. It's a pretty far fetched reason for you to find a nexus between race distance to be run and form tho' Beton ?!, and the race it's entered for. Most wouldn't include those as form, but it matters not.

I'm making a claim currently being shot down by semantics, and not taken in the true spirit in which it is offered Beton. I've explained myself, and I accept that your definition of form is different to mine, and might I suggest, others might have a different opinion too.

As long as I get my point across so that Vortech can have a look at his systems, and trial what I think is a helpful suggestion.

If you follow a horse's campaign you will notice that it comes back form a spell at a shorter distance than his last race and then builds up to it's capable distance. This is form related as the trainer and rightly so has said that the horse is not ready to run at a greater distance with competition, ie form. Trainer train a horse for a specific race, they enter into races to give the horse the required preparation to achieve that based on the horses current FORM

I honestly don't see the advice you have given is beneficial other than saying throw a dart at the racecard. All I am saying is substantiate your claim of NO FORM profitable systems. You have said look outside the box. That is a big field out there. I am asking you show that there is something outside the box.