For an absolute LAYMANS view here it is: I always thought it was too good to be true (remember the old adage?) but it didn't affect me as WA was excluded so I couldn't indulge anyway.

They changed the rules ..... BUT:

Then the main thing was 1 & 1/2% deposit charge......... NO WAY!, I deposit EVERY DAY AND (USUALLY WITHDRAW EVERY DAY)

Now all this bulaaaa, I think I'll just stick to what I know, and steer clear of all the crap!!

I am affected by the charges.

Yet I have had losing weeks in that period.

So how on earth can you justify your extraordinary modification to Betfair Premium Charges?

If losing weeks provided a loophole to escape the charges then imagine what would occur between colluding customers.

Actually Betfair are not saying anything remotely like your claim.

You apparently have missed the part where Betfair reveal what covering the cost really means.

Now if you study the situation there is no valid reason to suggest that Trader B costs Betfair more than Punter A.

Loser C who very rarely gets a bet matched but wastes tons of resources might actually cost much more.

Party,
That 1.5% is credit card only I used Bpay and never pay a cent. If I remember correctly NSW TAB charges 3% or was it $3 ? Either way its the method you choose you obviously need the instant funds so this isnt for you.

Chrome thatnks for trying to explain, as you said its hard because they are trying to plug something and the band-aid is not that good. Yes but generaly if you make a profit grinded out from POT then most likey you are ok. If you have a high strike rate or you trade your position then you are effected. I suppose people then need to make the choice if the betfair 'advantage' is worth it to them if they are punters or just cop it because they are traders and there is nowhere real to go.

Thanks

Michal

I won't pretend to understand how the new charges work, all I know is I will be affected. I have been with BF since they started betting on our races and have been happy to recommend them to all and sundry. But not any more. This is simply a money grabbing exercise that all monopolies succumb to. Why?, because they can. I have been told (over the phone) that I can always go elsewhere for my lay betting. This is their attitude. The other thing that really irks me is that people who place bets less than $6 are receiving emails threatening to close their accounts, however if the bets are placed via a bot, then that's ok. See the difference? They even advertise this fact on the BF site !!!

To the moderator, if you want proof of the threat I can send it through.

Party, why do you need to deposit every day ???

Elk,

if you spend some time watching how UK horse markets build up, then you should eventually realise that most long term Betfair winners bet in a different way than you do.

Essentially you are not availing yourself of all the best options in a market. Had you done so your 12 week streak would have reaped far bigger returns.

However since your figures are not representative of the aforementioned winners, your strategies and conclusions would not necessarily apply to them.

Personally, I comfortably play over 2,000 markets in far, far, far less than a year. And don't even bother trying to calculate POT, but would be surprised if it was over 1%.

Yet I am affected by the charges.

Mark, I find the tone of the "marketing" equally as annoying as the charge. It has a real "these people are cheating all you battlers" feel to it. I've not been contacted about the charge. I suspect the backing side of my ledger pop's me over the threshold.

Elk, thanks for your example. What a shame Betfair couldn't have done the same thing.

__________________
Pixie

"It's worth remembering that profit isn't profit until it's spent off the racecourse." -- Crash

jfc, it doesn't work on one or two losing bets or one or two marginally losing weeks, it isn't about the actual losing, it's about the ratio of profit to turnover.

Losing isn't a loophole, but the way in which you win is.

__________________
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I don't believe Betfair are telling us accurately the reasoning behind this, I don't believe that one customer costs Betfair more than another generally.
They are already set up, they already have their staff and software.
The previous costs have been offset by transaction charges (loads on their server and processing volumes of single bets from one customer etc).

The premium charge is just another area to raise revenue.

In fact it's quite ingenious when you think about it...possibly dastardly

Losing customers are generally not affected, so keep betting.
Winning customers will keep betting because they are winning.

It's the traders, arbers and bookmaking punters who are the worst off.

They don't care if they lose these clients, because the premium charge from those that stay will more than make up for those who leave.

All that suffers is liquidity, but where short term people leave, there are replacements always waiting to have a crack at it.

A lot of people think that the droves leaving and decrease in liquidity will put Betfair out of business, in fact I think it will create more effective advertising than any planted garden or race sponsorship could do.

I can guarantee that this time next year, a lot of regular winners will have moved elsewhere or changed the way they do things, but that Betfair's liquidity will be better than ever.

__________________
RaceCensus - powerful system testing software.
Now with over 399,000 Metropolitan, Provincial and Country races!
http://www.propun.com.au/horse_raci...ng_systems.html
*RaceCensus now updated to 31/03/2024
Video overview of RaceCensus here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W821YP_b0Pg

Quote from the link you posted in your first Post

"The Premium Charge will only apply to customers who pay us less in commission than it costs for us to service them. The reason they do is because a) many of them use the Betfair infrastructure extensively, or b) they drain liquidity from the exchange by withdrawing their winnings faster than new funds are added back by other existing or new Betfair customers, or c) both of the above. Overall, these customers are a cost to Betfair, which means ultimately that they are a cost to the entirety of our customer base."

Trader A and B cost the same, 100 bets each. Trader A pays $600 commission betfair happy. Trader B uses same amount of resources pays only $100 commission.