Hello again. You wrote:

Further down the page there is a heading in bold, "Also for thoroughbred punters..." and this is where it mentions top fluc betting.

I looked again. After that the heading is "Competitive betting ring prices".

You wrote:
"Please tell me the rumblings wouldn't be much louder if an Adelaide bookmaker was taking 5% of punter's profits on bets laid at top fluc".

I guess the point is punters know they are betting top fluc. minus 5%. For many punters, considering $50 bets are accepted, it is probably better than they can do if they went to their local track on a Saturday
and wanted to bet on the interstate races with the few (one?) bookmaker betting the call (usually less) on interstate races.
Apart from the difficulties of even getting anywhere near top odds by trying to place bets from an infrequent call where there can be big price movements.



[ This Message was edited by: The Catparrot on 2002-02-01 11:49 ]

We're arguing different points. I know punters who take top flucs are fully aware they are giving away 5% of their winnings and that this might be better than being at the track where if they miss the best price and a horse firms in the market that that price is gone. I'm not arguing that.

My point is twofold. Firstly, for a bookmaker to charge a commission on winning bets is a crime. There are plenty of bookies (No 1 Betting Shop for eg) who offer top flucs and don't charge. Remember, top flucs benefits bookies more than it benefits punters. THAT'S WHY THEY OFFER IT.

Secondly as I've said previously, this website promotes itself as an industry watchdog. Why is there nothing said against DAS charging punters on winning bets? Read these words again. THEY ARE CHARGING ON WINNING BETS.

You said yourself in a previous post that punters shouldn't be paying 5 to 10% of winnings as a commission for receiving top flucs.

Consider this ...
Darwin hold $100,000 on a race. $90,000 is to be paid in winning bets so the house profit is $10,000. But Read's mob only pay out $85,500 after the 5% rip which the increses their profit by 45%!!!
Wouldn't you love to find a way when on the punt that you could increase your winnings by 45%? That's like getting 6/4 about every 1/1 winner.
As Reenster points out, there are plenty of competitors offering no take-out top flucs ... now that the Vanuatu boys have hit town I think Mr Read might sharpen up a bit.

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2002-06-10 00:13 ]

Puntz, top fluctuation is the top price that is commonly available in the betting ring where the race is held. Eg. if a race is at Rosehill, the top fluctuation is the top price that is commonly available in the Rosehill betting ring.
Hope this helps.
Mr. Logic

Logic,
I think in a market where there is a reasonable variation in prices, the top fluc is the most generally available "good price" if that makes any sense.
For example, in Sydney there are about 15 rails bookies and there may be 5 betting 2/1, 9 betting 9/4 and one has 5/2 up. The fluc is given as 9/4.

If you opt for top flucs with a bookmaker, generally you have to place your bet well before the market is framed, ie before midday or sometimes up to 30 minutes before race time.

Once your bet is on you are guaranteed the top official fluctuation in prices for that race. Eg. If your horse opens at 3/1, then drifts to 7/2, then tightens to 5/2, you are guaranteed the 7/2. Similarly If your horse opens at 10/1 and tightens to 4/1, you get 10/1.

Puntz, you say a bet is a bet is a bet but if you accept 5/1 and that price drifts out to 7/1, you miss out on those extra couple of points. With Top Fluc, you are guaranteed the longer odds.

The drawback is of course having to place your bet so early. I've mentioned before why it's a service bookies provide but rest assured, it's not out of heart felt generosity for the punter.

Cheers

Thank you.


[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2002-06-10 00:14 ]

I wrote:
".top fluctuation is the top price that is commonly available in the betting ring where the race is held. Eg. if a race is at Rosehill, the top fluctuation is the top price that is commonly available in the Rosehill betting ring."

mr magic wrote:
Logic,
I think in a market where there is a reasonable variation in prices, the top fluc is the most generally available "good price" if that makes any sense.
For example, in Sydney there are about 15 rails bookies and there may be 5 betting 2/1, 9 betting 9/4 and one has 5/2 up. The fluc is given as 9/4.

I agree with you.
I thought that was also what I wrote!

Puntz,

I agree with you. If you've assessed a horse's chances and you think it's value at say 5/1 and you get 5/1 then you should be happy and not rue the fact that after you took 5/1 the horse drifted. You got your assessed price and that's that, particularly if the horse wins.

Whenever I use top fluctuations, I always set a minimum price I'm prepared to accept. My instructions to my bookie are top fluctuations with a minimum price of (say) 5/1. That way I get the best odds while at the same time protecting my value. If 5/1 is not offered, there is no bet.

I am totally in agreeance that no bookie should charge a commission on winning bets placed at top fluc which gets back to our original argument. Bookies who skim off a punter's winnings are rip off merchants. If they can't offer genuine top flucs (and there are plenty who do) then they shouldn't offer anything at all.