Where do the greatest punters on earth rate a welter as far as class goes.

As far as I know a welter is supposed to be a handicap with a higher minimum weight. They always seem to have a regular minimum weight to me anyway and I have trouble deciding how much emphasis to put on a past welter win when assessing form.

Below open, about the same. I really don't know where the logic of a welter fits into the more regular and understandable progression through class but I bet even money or better somebody else does. Not sure what odds they'll post it.

__________________
pipped at the post

In the hierarchy of race classes, the welter used to rank second bottom of the the 'open' class races, higher than the highweight but behind the flying or the flying welter - there used to be a weight differential between these classes.

Highweights used to have a limit weight of 54kgs, Welters a limit of 51kgs, Fying/Flying Welters a limit of 48kgs, but of course since those days, weights have been raised on a number of occasions,

Highweights will probably be remembered as a little used class that was mainly used on Melbourne Cup day - I think that used to run two such races. But basically they have been long gone now.

In today's racing, there are very few if any 'real' welter races run, although they may be tagged as such, but when the actual race conditions are examined, they are really some type of restricted race, either by the number of wins during the last twelve months or some other restriction.

Not sure if you have advanced my understanding much or not La mer but thanks anyway.

BELMONT PARK 05/08/06
7
4:17 The Cartwheel (a Welter) 1400m
Welter $40,000
Apprentices Can Claim 3yo+ Handicap Min Hcp Wgt : 53.0

That's race 7 at Belmont yesterday. Volition won it. The only restriction seems to be exclusion of 2 year olds.

Which basically means it's an open race because the minimum weight is pretty much as any other race. They must be as you say. Unkilled ancient terminology. The welter needs welting.

__________________
pipped at the post

They are a reliable race to handicap and bet on. Old punting sage advise used to be 'only bet on Welters'. Boy, you wouldn't be getting too many betting opportunities nowadays. When I was younger there used to be a stack of them.

O'k crash, best punter on earth. You are handicapping a welter.

Horse A last start won a welter.

Horse B last start won a metro class 6.

Horse C won a race restricted to horse not having 3 metro wins in the last year.

Horse D won an open race.

Leave all other factors out. Do you go D, A, C, B. Not really worried about how easy welters are to handicap. Just what does a win in a welter indicate about the class of a horse. The best I can place it as is just beneath an open race.

__________________
pipped at the post

OK, the difference between a Perth metro Open handicap & a Perth metro welter is 2kgs, while the difference between a Perth metro welter & a Perth metro Rs3MW's race is 5kgs (too great in my opinion), while the difference between a Perth metro Rs3MW's race & a Rs1MW/Class 6 race is 1.5kgs.

Hope that clarifies a little.

You've clarified I think. The handicapper would wack 2 kgs on a horse going from open to welter is the way I read your clarification.

Have a good day, La mer. With your comment to. How may welter winners win 3 or more metro races a year.

__________________
pipped at the post

I ignore the class system [a ***'s breakfast] and follow the cash and the trainers head-space. I couldn't care less about the class of a race and nor could most trainers [type of race like open, mares, fillies and mares etc. sure, but not class level]. They are interested in the prize money.

The more the prize money of a race the better the horse has to be to win it [simple isn't it?]. After eligibility, trainers look mostly at the prize money, they then know what 'class' [or field strength] they are up against for any of their horses.

All things being equal, I'll back a horse who has won a $22k C1 against a horse who has won a $12k open handicap, welter or whatever, every time.
I couldn't give a fig about the class system, I've got better things to do with my time that getting lost in the mumbo jumbo land the class system has turned into. I Follow the money guide and handicap a horse on the prize money it has competed for and how well it went doing so.

CLASS AND WEIGHT were the constants of racing .

As far as CLASS goes these days ( a minefield ) most of the best rating men about moved some years ago to FIELD STRENGTH figures.

Cheers.
Darky.

With you crash but if you have a r1mwly $40,000 form against r3mwly $40,000 form the latter has to be more often than not the harder race to have won.

I think the class rating of a race has to give you a rough at the edges indication of the the field strength figure that darky *** talks about. Until you get to listed races and up, most restricted saturday races have the same prize money so you have to take some notice of restrictive eligibility for races when assessing the quality of a win. Anyway a welter seems to come in just under group 1 and just over a maiden. Well just under an open race.

__________________
pipped at the post